In the 'And you sometimes can't tell the War on Terror combatants apart from their backsides either department' we have:
" Hey, didn't we see this same 'vanity' slogan tattooed into the rear end of Bin Laden's getaway camel ? ".
Hmmm.
Shockdoc -- liberty and reason are far more useful against an avowed enemy (as well as against the trials and tribulations of the physical universe ) than the various and sundry world wide faiths forcing us to thoughtlessly rely on epiphanies, revelations, miracles, special signs gleaned from different holy books, and --What! -- vanity plates now.
Why should the state keep Jesus stuck up on a wall? There's a little bit of room in the right lower corner of the plate for a picture/portrait/caricature of Jesus. Maybe just a little to the side of the registration sticker. Or put him in a hologram for your driver's licence, since I understand this kind of identifiable religious affiliation has been remarkably effective in Iraq when it became necessary for strangers to know about your faith. Better make that kind of ID tamperproof or we won't know who to persecute or prosecute -- or assassinate.
Shockdoc's Doppelganger -- Yes, the wonderful toxic mixture of the irresistable force of the state and the thoughtless faith of the world's monotheistic religions will not be contained -- except by the boundary set up by liberty and reason.
In God We Trust? If the so called "Christian leaders" truly believed that, there would be no need for the military or the Defense Department or Homeland Security.
All States, including WV should have the option of motoring around w/ "In God We Trust" etched on our tags. I am sick and tired of suppressing the culture and beliefs of the vast majority of Americans for the "rights" of those who have done nothing to earn those "rights" in the first place...IN GOD WE TRUST, and pass the ammunition!
Anonymous said... In God We Trust? If the so called "Christian leaders" truly believed that, there would be no need for the military or the Defense Department or Homeland Security.
You should read your Bible. Neimiah posted Guards as he rebuilt the wall. David slew Golith, etc etc. Christians were called to trust God but not to be stupid and just lay there. Comeon, Get real!
If you want to follow the Old Testament historical examples, then make war, post guards, wipe out a nation or 2. However, if you want to follow Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace, the basis of the Christian religion, then you must Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Christ often quoted the OT striking down such concepts as an eye for an eye, etc.
And, so we see from the last two anonymous blog entries -- presumably from two people who would consider themselves to be 'Christian' -- that they hold markedly divergent and inconsistent opinions on the extremely important issues of self defense and reprisal.
Wow! Two eager spokespersons of 'The Prince of Peace', and they can not read from the same page or book -- literally and figuratively. And we are supposed to apply this kind of bizarre Christian 'nonlogic' thoughtlessly and unquestioninglty to other personal, public and government activities.
With many different faiths and members with hermetically sealed minds, there is always the risk of friction. How can you capture the minds and hearts of others, and increase the ranks. Can't use peaceful persuasion or reason to make a change in another's supernatural belief system; you must use force and fraud. And the deaths mount. Not sure? Check out the history books or today's newspapers. While the physical universe continues to threaten man unabatedly, the reasoning man steadfastly resolves to study, understand and control his circumstances; the followers of faith merely hope for miraculous intercession. But, we know which strategy will save lives.
So, religions lead to death. But, if you insist, you can always choose your poison -- unless you live in Bridgeport, WV.
So, maybe atheism is a more correct position -- in fact, it is THE correct position. Atleast, they read from the same page. But, don't pray for me -- it just means you've resolved to stop using your mind and hands. And besides, I wouldn't expect something from nothing -- check out the carefully conducted double blind study assessing the effectiveness of prayer on medical illness. Absolutely no benefit whatsoever; but it sure beats emptying bedpans or other productive work.
Shockdoc -- promoting the healthy business of 'liberty and reason' since the alternative position of 'faith and force' only bankrupts economically and morally and leads to foreclosure on our bodies.
The license plates will not cause a stir. That's because the courts have already ruled that In God We Trust has become a generic slogan....a tradition. In other words, meaningless.
IMHO, Christians are being stupid to continue to try to push a religion onto American government. Everytime a lawsuit comes up like this, the Constitutional guarantee that there will be separation between church and state is upheld. So, if Christians manage to have a cross, or mural, or phrase embedded in a governmental venue, it automatically is rendered without religious significance. Thus, the Christmas tree is now, legally, a secular symbol, and Christmas is, legally, a secular holiday. And, thanks to continued pressing of these types of suits, the cross is coming closer to becoming, legally, merely a memorial symbol or secular symbol of memorial. Nothing more.
The forefathers wisely separated church and state to protect religion, not protect people or protect government. Protect religion. Wise Christians are realizing what the continued press is doing to the religion and are backing off this kind of intrusion.
God. A secular word, a quaint tradition. Check the courts. You have 2 choices....either it's religious and not allowed on government property, or it's not religious, and it is allowed.
And yet it's upheld by the courts. While that is not how it is written, the material that the writers left behind in their essays and writings show the thought processes and motivations behind what they wrote. Judicial interpretations have been based on that, and voila! that is how the practical interpretation has been upheld all these years.
Thus, if you want to keep the phrase In God We Trust on your money, then you have to recognize that the phrase is secular. The first court to rule it such was in 1970, and it was upheld recently. In God We Trust has been ruled to be a slogan.
It's a disaster for the religious. Religious organizations should be fighting tooth and nail to get God as far away from the government as possible. As far as the courts are concerned, legally, In God We Trust is now no different than Wheaties: The Breakfast of Champions and Just Do It. It's a slogan. The meaning is being erased, and at the hands of Christians. The activist political arm of Christianity is helping to destroy itself.
Since the government took the dollar off the gold standard, there is nothing back it...so it might as well be "g-d" backing it well as anything else. Nothing like having your spiritual leader being the front man for counterfeit money operation, huh? It really doesn't matter if you trust or don't trust g-d when it comes to the matter of government produced fiat money being spit off the printing presses -- unless g-d can find the off switch to those infernal things, the dollar is doomed to tank. And won't that be a great public relations disaster for the religious. Won't g-d be pissed off. When the dollar really bottoms out, I guess it will be cheaper to burn the bills than pay for heating propane. Wow, won't that be a hot topic of discussion around the water fountains on Sunday mornings. A case could be made that the slogan --"IGWT" -- is actually a smoke screen gratuitously thrown out by the government to allow the printing presses to run full tilt --unmolested and unquestioned by the masses. So, that's the price you pay for putting the state in charge of direct-to-consunmer advertising.
I will second the previous "anonymous" blog : Be careful when you the state invites you to lie down with it....you might rather turn and run like hell for a wall of separation. But, if you don't leave the warm embrace of the state and refuse security for your values behind a wall of separation, I would then merely ask: How would you then want the state and church to be connected ? And of course, the state will be quite willing to oblige and give you that connection...and much more...hard and fast..whether you like it or not.
Shockdoc -- Speechless; hopefully liberty and reason can drown out the cacophany coming from faith and force
Perhaps -- maybe the same demonic forces that prevented you from writing "He" in the same sentence you raised my name in capital. Faux pas or what -- but I'll I accept the honor graciously before it is rescinded. So, all in all, maybe we shouldn't give demonic forces all the credit in this kind of tete-a-tete.
And, on the matter of choosing a "nom de plume", I find it interesting that "Anonymous" immediately above does not choose a name by which he/she wishes to be differentiated from the 'mass' (sic) of other faithful "Anonymous" bloggers. This is not the Dark Ages. You will not be burned at the stake. So, chill out, throw off those shackles and enjoy yourself -- in this world. You can always reapply them in the next.
Shockdoc -- Choosing liberty and reason is a sure fire scintillating way to differentiate oneself from the grey anonymity of being just another follower of faith and force.
For the third time, the Washington quote above is paraphrased and taken out of context. The actual quote reads, "You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ." He was speaking to Delaware Indian chiefs and the words "American schools" are nowhere to be found. It's possible he meant this but I think it's stretching things a bit. Especially as this was during the Revolution and we didn't have "American" schools yet.
19 Comments:
how about God Bless America-no exceptions?
Shockdoc writes :
In the 'And you sometimes can't tell the War on Terror combatants apart from their backsides either department' we have:
" Hey, didn't we see this same 'vanity' slogan tattooed into the rear end of Bin Laden's getaway camel ? ".
Hmmm.
Shockdoc -- liberty and reason are far more useful against an avowed enemy (as well as against the trials and tribulations of the physical universe ) than the various and sundry world wide faiths forcing us to thoughtlessly rely on epiphanies, revelations, miracles, special signs gleaned from different holy books, and --What! -- vanity plates now.
Shockdoc's Doppelganger writes :
Why should the state keep Jesus stuck up on a wall?
There's a little bit of room in the right lower corner of the plate for a picture/portrait/caricature of Jesus. Maybe just a little to the side of the registration sticker. Or put him in a hologram for your driver's licence, since I understand this kind of identifiable religious affiliation has been remarkably effective in Iraq when it became necessary for strangers to know about your faith. Better make that kind of ID tamperproof or we won't know who to persecute or prosecute -- or assassinate.
Shockdoc's Doppelganger -- Yes, the wonderful toxic mixture of the irresistable force of the state and the thoughtless faith of the world's monotheistic religions will not be contained -- except by the boundary set up by liberty and reason.
In God We Trust? If the so called "Christian leaders" truly believed that, there would be no need for the military or the Defense Department or Homeland Security.
How about we leave it the way our founding fathers intended it, "In God We Trust." Have you ever looked at our money?
OMG, I love the Indiana plate!
Good morning all, and have a good, safe, blessed, week.
Bella Sara
All States, including WV should have the option of motoring around w/ "In God We Trust" etched on our tags. I am sick and tired of suppressing the culture and beliefs of the vast majority of Americans for the "rights" of those who have done nothing to earn those "rights" in the first place...IN GOD WE TRUST, and pass the ammunition!
Anonymous said...
In God We Trust? If the so called "Christian leaders" truly believed that, there would be no need for the military or the Defense Department or Homeland Security.
You should read your Bible. Neimiah posted Guards as he rebuilt the wall. David slew Golith, etc etc. Christians were called to trust God but not to be stupid and just lay there. Comeon, Get real!
If you want to follow the Old Testament historical examples, then make war, post guards, wipe out a nation or 2. However, if you want to follow Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace, the basis of the Christian religion, then you must Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Christ often quoted the OT striking down such concepts as an eye for an eye, etc.
Shockdoc writes :
And, so we see from the last two anonymous blog entries -- presumably from two people who would consider themselves to be 'Christian' -- that they hold markedly divergent and inconsistent opinions on the extremely important issues of self defense and reprisal.
Wow! Two eager spokespersons of 'The Prince of Peace', and they can not read from the same page or book -- literally and figuratively. And we are supposed to apply this kind of bizarre Christian 'nonlogic' thoughtlessly and unquestioninglty to other personal, public and government activities.
With many different faiths and members with hermetically sealed minds, there is always the risk of friction. How can you capture the minds and hearts of others, and increase the ranks. Can't use peaceful persuasion or reason to make a change in another's supernatural belief system; you must use force and fraud. And the deaths mount. Not sure? Check out the history books or today's newspapers. While the physical universe continues to threaten man unabatedly, the reasoning man steadfastly resolves to study, understand and control his circumstances; the followers of faith merely hope for miraculous intercession. But, we know which strategy will save lives.
So, religions lead to death. But, if you insist, you can always choose your poison -- unless you live in Bridgeport, WV.
So, maybe atheism is a more correct position -- in fact, it is THE correct position. Atleast, they read from the same page.
But, don't pray for me -- it just means you've resolved to stop using your mind and hands. And besides, I wouldn't expect something from nothing -- check out the carefully conducted double blind study assessing the effectiveness of prayer on medical illness. Absolutely no benefit whatsoever; but it sure beats emptying bedpans or other productive work.
Shockdoc -- promoting the healthy business of 'liberty and reason' since the alternative position of 'faith and force' only bankrupts economically and morally and leads to foreclosure on our bodies.
The license plates will not cause a stir. That's because the courts have already ruled that In God We Trust has become a generic slogan....a tradition. In other words, meaningless.
IMHO, Christians are being stupid to continue to try to push a religion onto American government. Everytime a lawsuit comes up like this, the Constitutional guarantee that there will be separation between church and state is upheld. So, if Christians manage to have a cross, or mural, or phrase embedded in a governmental venue, it automatically is rendered without religious significance. Thus, the Christmas tree is now, legally, a secular symbol, and Christmas is, legally, a secular holiday. And, thanks to continued pressing of these types of suits, the cross is coming closer to becoming, legally, merely a memorial symbol or secular symbol of memorial. Nothing more.
The forefathers wisely separated church and state to protect religion, not protect people or protect government. Protect religion. Wise Christians are realizing what the continued press is doing to the religion and are backing off this kind of intrusion.
God. A secular word, a quaint tradition. Check the courts. You have 2 choices....either it's religious and not allowed on government property, or it's not religious, and it is allowed.
The last writer states, "the Constitutional guarantee that there will be separation between church and state is upheld."
There is nothing in the constitution about seperation of church and state !
And yet it's upheld by the courts. While that is not how it is written, the material that the writers left behind in their essays and writings show the thought processes and motivations behind what they wrote. Judicial interpretations have been based on that, and voila! that is how the practical interpretation has been upheld all these years.
Thus, if you want to keep the phrase In God We Trust on your money, then you have to recognize that the phrase is secular. The first court to rule it such was in 1970, and it was upheld recently. In God We Trust has been ruled to be a slogan.
It's a disaster for the religious. Religious organizations should be fighting tooth and nail to get God as far away from the government as possible. As far as the courts are concerned, legally, In God We Trust is now no different than Wheaties: The Breakfast of Champions and Just Do It. It's a slogan. The meaning is being erased, and at the hands of Christians. The activist political arm of Christianity is helping to destroy itself.
Shockdoc writes :
Hahahahaha !!
Since the government took the dollar off the gold standard, there is nothing back it...so it might as well be "g-d" backing it well as anything else. Nothing like having your spiritual leader being the front man for counterfeit money operation, huh?
It really doesn't matter if you trust or don't trust g-d when it comes to the matter of government produced fiat money being spit off the printing presses -- unless g-d can find the off switch to those infernal things, the dollar is doomed to tank. And won't that be a great public relations disaster for the religious. Won't g-d be pissed off. When the dollar really bottoms out, I guess it will be cheaper to burn the bills than pay for heating propane. Wow, won't that be a hot topic of discussion around the water fountains on Sunday mornings. A case could be made that the slogan --"IGWT" -- is actually a smoke screen gratuitously thrown out by the government to allow the printing presses to run full tilt --unmolested and unquestioned by the masses. So, that's the price you pay for putting the state in charge of direct-to-consunmer advertising.
I will second the previous "anonymous" blog : Be careful when you the state invites you to lie down with it....you might rather turn and run like hell for a wall of separation. But, if you don't leave the warm embrace of the state and refuse security for your values behind a wall of separation, I would then merely ask:
How would you then want the state and church to be connected ?
And of course, the state will be quite willing to oblige and give you that connection...and much more...hard and fast..whether you like it or not.
Shockdoc -- Speechless; hopefully liberty and reason can drown out the cacophany coming from faith and force
I find it interesting that those of you like Shockdoc cannot even write the names of God or Jesus. This is usually a sign of demonic forces.
Praise God may he bless and forgive you!
Shockdoc writes :
Perhaps -- maybe the same demonic forces that prevented you from writing "He" in the same sentence you raised my name in capital. Faux pas or what -- but I'll I accept the honor graciously before it is rescinded. So, all in all, maybe we shouldn't give demonic forces all the credit in this kind of tete-a-tete.
And, on the matter of choosing a "nom de plume", I find it interesting that "Anonymous" immediately above does not choose a name by which he/she wishes to be differentiated from the 'mass' (sic) of other faithful "Anonymous" bloggers. This is not the Dark Ages. You will not be burned at the stake. So, chill out, throw off those shackles and enjoy yourself -- in this world. You can always reapply them in the next.
Shockdoc -- Choosing liberty and reason is a sure fire scintillating way to differentiate oneself from the grey anonymity of being just another follower of faith and force.
"What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ."
George Washington (1789-97)
For the third time, the Washington quote above is paraphrased and taken out of context. The actual quote reads, "You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ." He was speaking to Delaware Indian chiefs and the words "American schools" are nowhere to be found. It's possible he meant this but I think it's stretching things a bit. Especially as this was during the Revolution and we didn't have "American" schools yet.
Bport Agnostic
“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern, which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”
Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
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